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homeslice

Great post! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it :-)

FENICLE

AMEN sister!

Catherine

You must be inside of my head. This is something that bothers me on a daily basis! Unfortunately, I live in the burbs, but make my way into the city several times a week with kids in tow. I hate the feeling of not being accepted just because I've got two snot nosed kids by my side. Hoping that this begins to change and it's moms like you who will be responsible for a more family friendly Austin!

hokgardner

Well now, you don't HAVE to move to the burbs. I live in a close-in neighborhood with a school and a park and a coffee shop that welcomes kids and a family-owned grocery store all within walking distance. Of course, I'm cramming three kids and a husband into 1600 square feet, which is feeling a bit cramped. But I refuse to move to Travis Country or the likes.

tootsie

Ha! I'm glad I am not the only one who takes my kids to Jeffery's for 1/2 price apps!!

Shilli

I work downtown, live near O'Henry JH. I meet my wife and baby for lunch pretty often - Jo's, Austin Java, McCormick's, Shoreline, etc., and have never had any problems. Most of them don't have many other babies, but Jo's often has a bunch.

I think the reason you don't see many kids downtown yet is there still aren't many people that live there. The VMU projects you are complaining about will enable a lot more to move in. I think as downtown gets more residents, it will get more kids and become more kid-friendly.

Shabbily built apartments? That's how modern construction is. Been to the burbs lately? Everything there is built with plywood, styrofoam and a staple gun. At least most VMU has a steel frame. Abandoned retail slots? I haven't seen many, and the few that there get are filled pretty quick.

Where are the schools? Downtown is zoned for Matthews, O'Henry and Austin High - maybe not "urban," but great schools nonetheless. Where are the parks? One of the biggest parks in the city is right across the lake from downtown.

I'd take life in downtown Austin over life in the burbs any day. Discrimination? I don't think so. Life in the city is hard for everybody, and you've got to hustle to get by, but its worth it.

Shelly

I have a love/hate relationship with my house in the burbs, so I'm with you. Clearly, people are raising children in New York City or Chicago. Why is urban Austin so exclusive? Does Austin appear more family friendly than it really is?

M1EK

I'm with Shilli; the idea that downtown is kid-unfriendly seems WAY wrong to me. Mathews is a great school to which many people transfer (walking distance from our old condo); there's plenty of good parks - including for kids - seen the fountain at Town Lake Park? The playscape at Zilker? Pease?

We live a mile north of UT and find the area plenty family-friendly; I especially enjoy taking the bus downtown with my 4-year-old.

M1EK

PS: My next-door neighbors have 3 kids in 1050 square feet. Now that's "crammed"! We've got 2 kids in 1250, which is merely "tight", I'd say.

Value wIT

So many issues, such little time (and battery power).

First, living in Tarrytown, north of UT or Brykerwoods is NOT living downtown. Living downtown and truly urban means you put your car away and use your feet to walk to the grocery store, school, work and errands.

As far as parks, Zilker, Pease and Town Lake parks really aren't walking distance from downtown. Try getting a four-year old to walk or bike from Congress to Barton Springs. Be honest, that would take half the day. Same for 2nd Street to Pease park.

These arguments are so reminiscent of the armchair pontificators who spew uninformed opinions about public transportation, yet have never set foot on the bus.

Don't live in (whatever that neighborhood west of Tarrytown is called) and talk about VMU downtown. Every single day I walk past crappy new west campus apartments with empty retail on the bottom floor. It's no secret taht the developers got a tax break for mixed-use development. I'm all for creating a better plan, but wiping out historic landmarks for a pizza delivery store isn't my idea of a good plan. Don't talk about this issue until you walk Rio Grande, San Gabriel, West and know the facts.

Finally, the fact that the 'burbs have shabby construction does not mean that it is alright or something to which downtown should aspire. Why build a piece of shit when you can build something of quality? OH, that's right...to make a buck.

Shilli

I never said that I lived downtown - I don't. I said I work downtown, which I do. I said I lived near O'Henry, which I do. I know that O'Henry isn't downtown - I specifically said that it wasn't urban. I still go downtown everyday. Plus, I have lived places where VMU is successfully integrated into the environment and where I have been able to live without a car. I have as much right to talk about VMU downtown as anyone.

West campus is also not downtown. Most of the VMU projects there are very recent - I would guess that any empty retail space will be filled within a year of the project being completed. It is hardly surprising that the quality of construction there would be very poor.

I think some of your beliefs about VMU are incorrect. What developers got a tax break for downtown mixed-use development? The Domain is not downtown. What historic landmark was wiped out for a pizza delivery store? Most west campus bungalows are not historic landmarks.

I think it is unrealistic to think there is some magical way of convincing developers to build things for some reason other than money. I'm all for improving standards, getting rid of EIFs, etc., but to make a blanket statement that all VMU is poorly built is incorrect. Many of the current projects downtown are quite nice. Some of them are crap. That doesn't mean that none of them should be built.

Right now downtown is not a great place to live and not a great place for kids, but it is getting better and VMU projects are the best way for it to keep getting better.

Deb (Missives From Suburbia)

If we didn't own four large dogs, we would be imposing our family on the downtown world, as well. As it is, I refuse to live in the true 'burbs. Or, as I like to say it, "I won't live in a city no one's ever heard of." It makes my husband nuts, but he can buy a house in St. Paul or Minneapolis, but I will not live in Eden F*cking Prairie.

M1EK

"These arguments are so reminiscent of the armchair pontificators who spew uninformed opinions about public transportation, yet have never set foot on the bus."

Have you ever read my blog? Seriously?

Point is that Shilli and I live close enough to have tons of experience with walking around downtown with kids and family in tow. Had there been a 3-bedroom condo option available 6 years ago when I bought this house, we might be in it right now, actually.

And, yeah, I'd walk to Pease from "downtown" - if you consider the Nokonah and related environs downtown. While I get irritated at people who think downtown starts at 183; Lamar isn't too far to be considered.

Likewise, people at Spring definitely could and will walk to Town Lake; maybe not all the way to Zilker, but you never know (I've done it with a 3-year-old).

M1EK

BTW, if we're comparing bona-fides, I spent 7 years without driving to the grocery store - not even once - from the condo we still own in Clarksville. I wouldn't call that "downtown", but by your metric it apparently suffices, ironically.

Value wIT

"Kids, let's go to Zilker Park We'll spend an hour and half hiking to the park, play for 30 minutes and hike home for an hour and half. There will be no time for homework, dinner or bath, but we'll get to the convenient park."

Why all the hate? I'm just stating that living downtown in Austin with a family and limited car use is not practical. Austin is not there yet. The few houses around the West side of downtown allow for families to be downtown, but it is a fact that developers and ROMA want those houses mowed down for VMU.

My point is that all the chatter about Austin's urban mecca is done by people who don't live downtown. And, no. I don't think Clarksville is downtown. My point is that people are making decisions for downtown development and these decisions accommodate couples without children, empty-nesters and single people.

I'm glad you and Shilli lived in the Nokanah and experienced downtown living, but by your own admission you haven't lived downtown with children. So, I find it hard to accept that you should tell me how convenient O'Henry is for downtowners. It's not convenient or remotely safe to walk from downtown up the Enfield or 12th Street hill under MoPac to O'Henry. If the kids made it to school alive walking or biking where there are no sidewalks, they would be exhausted from getting up an extra hour to commute to school.

Jus' sayin' that while there are no parks or schools downtown that families have to subsidize with yards and private school. Now, development wants to kill the houses - most specifically my yard.

M1EK

You're still drawing a lot of incorrect conclusions - neither of us ever lived in the Nokonah (as far as I know for Shilli). I brought it up to point out that there was a condo building "downtown" within easy walking distance of Pease Park. You also ignored my comments about Spring to Town Lake - a very easy walk.

By your own measure, again, though, since I walked on essentially all of my shopping errands for years living in Clarksville, it was downtown, right?

The real kicker though is this stuff:

"The few houses around the West side of downtown allow for families to be downtown"

Sure, if you're incredibly wealthy. Those houses, if you wanted to restore them to single-family use, are million dollar babies (even up the hill in Clarksville, I couldn't afford a single-family house, which is why we're in the much less attractive north university neighborhood - we'd have gladly taken a 3-bedroom condo had one existed in the non-luxury market). I'm still amazed at how many people don't get this: if you don't build any condos, then families won't be able to afford to live central or downtown. If you do build condos, there's a chance they might, because condos are cheaper than single-family houses in the same location. In neither instance will families be able to live in single-family houses central or downtown for anything less than serious scratch, of course.

Yes, even the new expensive condos qualify - they're still cheaper than it would be if you put up 8 single-family houses on the same block the 300 condos are going in on.

So it's not condos that are driving families out; they're actually the only hope to bring families back in. (My condo building had a new family move in at the other end as we were doing some maintenance/renovation between tenants this summer, as a matter of fact - a family who like me could never have afforded the $600,000 it would have cost to get a house there, but _could_ swing the $150,000 to $200,000 the condo cost).

More VMU means more opportunities just like that one. No more VMU means we keep only the single-family housing stock we have now and it gets even more expensive than it would with the VMU on the edges.

LindaKz

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